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Разговор:Magnum Crimen/Архива 1

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Први поднаслов

Издавачка кућа "Гамбит" из Јагодине је 2005. године објавила први пут два дотад необјављена поглавља из књиге "Magnum Crimen". Поред оригиналног текста објављен је у истом издању и његов енглески превод. Илустрација уз чланак Magnum Crimen (на који се односи овај разговор) је у ствари насловна страница ове књиге.

Гамбит ради на новом комплетном издању Magnum Crimen-а. И оно ће бити двојезично, са енглеским преводом. Треба да изађе у току 2007. године.

Oво доље је нецензурирана верзија текста чланка енглеске Википедије

Проширени садржај

Magnum Crimen

The Magnum Crimen is a book about clericalism in Croatia from the end of nineteenth century until the end of the Second World War. The book, whose full title is Magnum crimen - pola vijeka klerikalizma u Hrvatskoj (The Great Crime - a half-century of clericalism in Croatia), was written by a former Catholic priest and professor and historian at Belgrade University, Dr. Viktor Novak.[1] The book was first published in Zagreb in 1948.[2]

Background

Novak spent more than forty years collecting documents and books to writing the book. He started collecting this material during his secondary school days, then continued it as the university student, and the seminary student in Rome, then as the university professor in Belgrade. He wrote a trilogy, of which the last part is Magnum crimen (the first two parts of are the Magnum tempus[3] and the Magnum sacerdos[4]). In 1941, after the destruction and occupation of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, Novak was forced to destroy all material he had collected due to the danger of being arrested and killed by the German occupying forces and their collaborators in Belgrade. He was among the first ten people arrested in Belgrade by Germans, but managed to continue working on this book after liberation of Belgrade in October 1944.

Observing the Roman Catholic Church activities in Yugoslavia for more than fifty years, the author concludes that this Church replaced the idea of service to God with service to the Roman Curia, i.e., to the government of Roman Pontificate in the role of the world leader. As a result of this idea, in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, the Roman Catholic Church identified the Roman Catholicism to the Croatian nationhood which turned most of its priesthood into ardent Ustashe supporters.[5]

Content

The book describes the activities of the Roman Catholic clergy in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, including their intention and attempts to become above the state, to control the state and eventually the everyday lives of the common people. It has two distinct parts. The first part consists of fifteen chapters, covering the Roman Catholic clericalism from the end of the nineteenth and beginning of the twentieth century in Austria-Hungary, then in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. The second part, the last four chapters, covers the rise and fall of the Independent State of Croatia, and the active support of the Roman Catholic Church clergy.

The main doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was that (a) the clergy shall be paid by the state as the state officials; (b) the state cannot have any control over the Church; (c) the Church has right to be fully involved in the political life of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia; (d) the Church doctrine/religious education shall be a part of primary and secondary school curricula; and that (e) the Roman Catholic Church curricula in the schools shall be obligatory to all pupils whose at least one parent is a Roman Catholic.[6]

To achieve these goals, the Roman Catholic Church was actively involved in preventing the Kingdom of Yugoslavia from separating the state from the Church. The Church supported clerical political parties, confronting them to other confessions, primarily to the Serbian Orthodox Church, by publicly preaching hatred against the Orthodox population and advocating Croatian and Slovene separatism and intolerance against others.

Josip Juraj Strossmayer's ideas, of which the most important one was - serving God equals to serving people,[7] created close relations between Croats and Serbs by introducing the Old Slavonic language as the liturgy language of the Roman Catholic Church in the Balkans[8] and were aggressively suppressed by the Roman Catholic clergy in Croatia and Slovenia. The clergy put the Roman Curia in between the God and the people, demanding from the Roman Catholics ultimate obedience to the Roman Curia and unconditional love of the Roman Pope. The clergy remaining faithful to the Strossmayer was marginalized, with the most ardent supporters excommunicated by the Zagreb archbishop.

Nevertheless, Strossmayer was embraced as a great Roman Catholic bishop by the same clergy - but his teaching was distorted or not mentioned ever. The same destiny faced Franjo Rački, Ante Trumbić, and Stjepan Radić - three Croatian politicians advocating actively and fighting for the Yugoslavism - as a common denominator of togetherness and life among the Slavic people of the kingdom of Yugoslavia. Rački was not even allowed to attend the Strossmayer's funeral ceremony - even though that he was an ordained Roman catholic Church priest and true Strossmayer's friend and follower. The Trumbić and Radić's struggle against centralism was interpreted as the Croatian and Slovene separatism support.

Novak demonstrated that even the anti-Croatian activities in the Italian Croatian and Slovene lands (as compensation for their aid in World War I) were not counteracted by the Croatian and Slovene Roman catholic clergy in Yugoslavia. Expulsion of the Croatian and Slovene clergy from these lands and their replacement by the Italians was received with silence and accepted without resistance or protest among their Catholic brethren in Yugoslavia.

Ante Pavelić's political activities in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, the Ustashe terrorism, and the embracement of fascism were all supported by the Roman Catholic clergy in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. Pavelić's nationalism identified Roman Catholicism to the Croatdom, which was actively supported and interpreted by the clergy [9].

The second part of this book focuses on the establishment of the Independent State of Croatia, the active support of the Roman Catholic clergy to this state, and their involvement and support in the extermination and/or forceful conversion of the Serbs and extermination of the Jews and the Roma people. The book is full of testimonies and documents showing the active involvements of the Catholic clergy in supporting, organizing, and executing extermination of Serbs, Jews, and Roma people of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. One of the most bizarre events described was that Roman catholic priests in the Jasenovac concentration camp working every day on the most gruesome ways to kill the camp inmates, while they went to chapel regularly each day to pray to God.

At the end of World War II, the Catholic clergy defended themselves, claiming their opposition to forceful conversion and extermination in some letters and instructions directed to the priesthood. The book notes that these letters and directions were not public and not respected or followed. In fact, an article from "Novi list"' argued that a Jew could not be save by converting to the Roman Catholicism.

Archbishop Aloysius Stepinac is portrayed in this book as an ardent Roman Catholic crusader who publicly endorsed the establishment of the Independent State of Croatia,[10], acknowledged the Ustashe as Croatian patriots[11], defended her before the Roman Pope [12] and was responsible for the racist attitude and behavior of his clergy.[13]

Perception of the book as an academic reference

Among scholars-historians this book is accepted as a serious academic reference and as such - cited and referenced a great number of times [1],[2]. That way the book became a reference book in the libraries of many universities around the globe [3].

William Bundy gave a short survey of this book, the full text of which is: A Jugoslav historian's lengthy indictment of clericalism in Croatia over the past half-century. The latter half of the book, covering the period of "independent" Croatian state of Ante Pavelic on the basis of a wealth of material from many sources, pays particular attention to the role of Achbishop Stepinac.[14]

However, there is a number of ultimate rejections of this book. Slobodan Kljakic wrote about this book: A major piece, written by the academician Viktor Novak, "Magnum Crimen" had been placed by the Vatican on the Index librorum prohibitorum, and anathema had been pronounced against the author.[15] John Neubauer claims that this book was commissioned to aid in Tito's post war show trials.[16]

British journalist Robin Harris calls Novak's Croatian "clero-fascism" theory an exaggeration of the atrocities, done for political reasons.[17]

The book has six full editions [4] and one abridged [18]

Reference

  • Magnum crimen - pola vijeka klerikalizma u Hrvatskoj by Viktor Novak, Nakladni zavod Hrvatske, Zagreb 1948

Footnotes

  1. ^ Ljetopis Jugoslavenske akademije znanosti i umjetnosti by Jugoslavenska akademija znanosti i umjetnosti Zagreb 1979, pages 58, 673-4
  2. ^ Schmidt, Amy (1995-07-30). „Tito, Yugoslavia's demise distorted”. Washington Times. стр. B7.  |section= игнорисан (помоћ)
  3. ^ published as Magnum tempus: ilirizam i katoličko sveštenstvo : ideje i ličnosti, 1830-1849 by Viktor Novak, Nova knjiga, Beograd, 1987
  4. ^ published as Josip Juraj Štrosmajer: apostol Jugoslovenske misli by Viktor Novak, Savez sokola kraljevine Jugoslavije, Beograd, 1941
  5. ^ Magnum Crimen [1948], pages I-XV
  6. ^ Magnum Crimen [1948], pages 158-159
  7. ^ Magnum Crimen [1948], page XIV
  8. ^ Magnum Crimen [1948], page 257: Uvođenje starog slavenskog jezika u bogosluženje katoličkih Hrvata Strossmayer je punih pet decenija smatrao kao jedno od sredstava za zbližavanje zapadne s istočnom crkvom. Napori Strossmayera, koje je on učinio za te ideale u Rimu, Petrogradu, Beogradu i na Cetinju, ogromnih su razmjera
  9. ^ Magnum Crimen [1948], page 9 Dr. Ivan Šarić: Mi smo Hrvati i katolici i to hoćemo da budemo. Zato se sastadosmo da pred cijelim svijetom izjavimo, od kojega nam mnogi ne daju, da se zovemo Hrvati, a drugi nam hoće da krate da smo katolici.
  10. ^ Magnum Crimen [1948], page 551: Stepinac in his speech (complete - on pages 150-151) on April 10., 1941. Odazovite se stoga spremno ovom mom pozivu na uzvišeni rad oko čuvanja i unapređenja NDH. Poznavajući muževe koji danas upravljaju sudbinom hrvatskoga naroda mi smo duboko uvjereni, da će naš narod naići na puno razumijevanje i pomoć. Mi vjerujemo i očekujemo, da ce Crkva u uskrsloj Državi Hrvatskoj moći u punoj slobodi naviještati neoborive principe vječne Istine i Pravde.
  11. ^ Magnum Crimen [1948], page 545 Katolički list" saopćuje, da je tom prigodom nadbiskup izrazio ne samo svoja čestitanja za obnavljanje NDH, nego je istodobno izrazio i svoje žaljenje povodom smrti njegovoga brata Petra Kvaternika, koji je kao ustaški odmentnik poginuo u borbi sa regularnim trupama jugoslovenske vojske u Crikvenici, u trenutku kada je objavljivao u tom mjestu NDH i odcjepljenje od Jugoslavije.
  12. ^ Magnum Crimen [1948], page 887 U vec spomenutom memorandumu papi Piju XII., nadbiskup Stepinac, zalaže se za tu monstruoznost NDH, i njen upravni aparat kao za "produženu ruku Gestapoa i Ovre", pošto smatra (18. V. 1943), da se radi "o paklenom planu uništenja katolicizma na istočnoj strani Jadrana koju pripremaju neprijatelji Crkve u tim krajevima". Da bi bio što uvjerljiviji, nadbiskup Stepinac je čitav niz ustaških zločina pripisao naprosto partizanima, a zločince svećenike nastojao da odbrani od optužbi koje su doprle do samog Vatikana.
  13. ^ Magnum Crimen [1948], page 939. Msgr. Binički in "Razbojnička pećina": Mnogi su sladokusci zamjerali Ocu Domovine (tj. Anti Starčeviću) što je poznatu pasminu (tj. Srbe) nazvao "vlaškim nakotom". Kao da Vlasi nisu ljudi, van živine, koje se kote. Tko dobro luči, dobro uči. Treba dobro razlučitu stare hrvatske Vlahe - pastire od smeća što su ga Turci sa svih strana zgrnuli u ostanke drevne kraljevine Hrvatske.
  14. ^ Foreign Affairs Bibliography by Council on Foreign Relations, by William P. Bundy, Archibald Cary Coolidge, Council on Foreign Relations, Hamilton Fish Armstrong - vol. 57, no. 3 - page 340
  15. ^ A Conspiracy of Silence: Genocide in the Independent State of Croatia and Concentration Camp Jasenovac by Slobodan Kljakic Published 1991 Ministry of Information of the Republic of Serbia. page 35
  16. ^ Neubauer, John (2004). History of the literary cultures of East-Central Europe. John Benjamin Publishing Company. стр. 164. ISBN 9027234523. Приступљено 2008-06-30. 
  17. ^ Harris, Robin. „On Trial Again”. Catholic Culture. Trinity Communications. Приступљено 2008-07-16. 
  18. ^ Velika optužba (Magnum crimen) by Viktor Novak, Svjetlost Sarajevo 1960 (abridged)

Pamflet i propaganda

Последњи коментар: пре 14 година5 коментара5 уредника у расправи

Ova knjiga se u Hrvatskoj smatra pamfletom i propagandom s puno neistina u cilju, da se blati katoličko svećenstvo. Autor članka napisao je članak jednostrano i pristrano. Na hr wikipediji, na članak su stavljeni predlošci, da je točnost podataka osporena i da je nepristrana točka gledišta osporena te je autor kažnjen, jer je na hr wiki došao jedino kako bi pristrano pisao o ovoj temi što je činio i na velikom broju drugih wikipedija. Predlažem vam, da popravite ovaj članak, jer je pristran, neprimjeren i uvredljiv za katolike. p.s. ispričavam se što ne znam pisati na ćirilici i na srpskom jeziku. -- 78.1.168.134 (разговор) 00:06, 3. децембар 2009. (CET)Одговори

Ćirlica nije važna. Srpski se može pisati i latinicom. --93.86.55.186 (разговор) 00:23, 3. децембар 2009. (CET)Одговори

Uz svo poštovanje prema vama kao katoliku, na hrvatskoj wikipediji ima gomila proustaških članaka koji su uvredljivi za Srbe, a te članke štite administratori...kad se neko obrati na ovakav način kao Vi, ne vredi mu ništa. --Zrno (разговор) 00:19, 3. децембар 2009. (CET)ZrnoОдговори

Molim bez prozivanja i traženja reciprociteta. Ovde je priča o članku. Dakle, tačnost je osporena. Ko? Članak je uvredljiv za katolike. Zašto? Članak govori o knjizi u kojoj je opisan odnos dela klera prema jednom istorijskom periodu. Za bilo koji argumentovani razgovor će nam trebati reference. -- JustUser  d[-_-]b  00:27, 3. децембар 2009. (CET)Одговори

  • Што неко мисли у Хрватској о овој књизи је неважно. Овдје у USA та је књига у библиотекама најпрестижнијих универзитета и има статус референчне књиге т.ј. исти статус као Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, Webster и Oxford рјечници енглеског језика, атласи свијета, итд. итд. Новакова се књига не може изнијети из библиотека, а цитирана је стотине и стотине пута у радовима и књигама у којима се пише о том периоду историје Краљевине Југославије и другог свјетског рата.
    А ово пискарало горе пискара исти или сличан текст на свим Википедијама гдје је овај чланак. На енглеској Википедији ја сам написао чланак прије седам мјесеци. Одмах су почели напади: пристрасност, нечији "sockpuppet", па ме је исти (Rjecina) успио блокирати помоћу неког његовог пријатеља, па сам био одблокиран, па поново блокиран јер, тобоже, не слиједим правила енглеске Википедије, а сам чланак је био унакажен и редуциран на половину оригиналног садржаја. Такође им је успјело помоћу неког њиховог администратора, блокирати ме на руској Википедији, и обрисати све сем уводног дијела.--MagnumCrimen (разговор) 19:36, 5. децембар 2009. (CET)Одговори

За оне који то не знају

“Римски правосвештениче (Romain Pontife), чувај се да се не приближиш вароши коју запљускују две реке, јер ћеш ту крв пропљувати, ти и твоји у месецу кад цветају руже”. (Нострадамус) читај овде

2/97-1799

Romain Pontife guarde de t'approcher
De la cite que deux fleuves arrouse.
Ton san viendra aupres de la cracher,
Toy et les tiens quand fleurira la rose.

Roman Pontiff, take care of approaching
The city irrigated by two rivers
Your blood will come close to spitting
You and yours when the rose comes into bloom

Complete Prophecies of Nostradamus, Nostradamus, Ned Halley Wordsworth Editions, 1999

Zasto je clanak zakljucan?

Последњи коментар: пре 6 година1 коментар1 уредник у расправи

?

Ovde je skoro kompletan Neumannov prikaz Novakovog Magnum Crimen-a. Dobro bi bilo dopuniti ovim prikazom clanak.


Pola vijeka klerikalizma u Hrvatskoj (A Half Century of Clericalism in Croatia). Zagreb, 1948. Pp. 1124.

This book in paper covers of white and yellow is probably the largest historical work which has appeared in post-war Jugoslavia. Eleven hundred pages of print is undoubtedly an achievement considering the technical difficulties both in collecting material and press. The name of the author is not completely unknown to students of Latin paleography. Another question is how many of his articles and books on various aspects of Croat national history may have reached either private or public libraries in America. Viktor Novak, a Croat by birth, has been, since 1924, active among the Serbs. He has held the Chair of Croat History which was founded at the University of Belgrade in order to promote mutual understanding between the two kindred peoples. One of the determining factors in his life was his visit to Rome before 1914 and his research in the Vatican Archives. As a medievalist he came into a close contact with problems of modern religious life and took lively interest in relations between the Vatican and the Catholic Croats. Magnum crimen is the last part of a trilogy which Novak planned long before the second World War.

...

Strossmayer (1815-1905) who, for several decades, had held a dominant position among the Croat people and was, in his epoch, counted among the leading figures in the Danubian area. This part of the trilogy, Magnum Sacerdos, has not been conceived as a biography on the traditional pattern. Novak's ambition was to contrast the life work of the patriotic prelate with the views and activities of his opponents from the ranks of the higher Croat clergy. The present volume, the third in order, as indicated by the sub-title, sketches the growth of clericalism in Croatia since the opening of the present century, developing the theme to which some chapters of Strossmayer's biography were to be devoted. We learn from the preface that Magnum tempus was already completed before Jugoslavia had been drawn into the second world conflict, whereas the work on the second part of the trilogy did not advance beyond the preliminary stage of research in archives and libraries and classification of excerpts and notes.

It is easy to see why the final volume has been given priority in the author's program of work. It is evident that he wished to present his contemporaries in the shortest possible time with an analysis of such trends in Croat life as resulted in 1941, in separation of the Croats from the Serbs and in the establisment of NDH, the Independent State of Croatia. The book is topical and has been, undoubtedly, received with satisfaction by the present masters of Jugoslavia as many of its passages could be used as corroboration of charges made by the political leaders against the Croat Catholic hierarchy. The author does not stand aloof from the current struggles and controversies and makes it sufficiently clear that his book has not been intended as a dry account of past events, but in many cases as an actual impeachment, indeed a militant gesture. But in all fairness to the author it cannot be said that he has written his story in order to obtain any special consideration from the regime. The origin of the book cannot be traced to the sources of the current anti-Church propaganda as conducted in the Communist dominated countries. Its roots are deep in the soil of Central Europe and for those who are familiar with the Central Euorpean scene it is not difficult to trace the affiliations. Novak, to-day in his sixties, came in his formative years under the influence of the last wave of the anticlerical feeling which spread from France and Italy to Central Europe. Its champions could be found both among the German liberals and among the progressive Czechs. What in France and Italy remain within the intelectual sphere, in Central Europe soon became mingled with political and national struggles, then entering into the final phase. The alliance of the 'sabre and cowl', as the close contrasts between the imperial Court and the hierarchy were usually called, brouhgt about, especially among the non-German peoples, an enstrangement between the people and that section of high clergy which was its lot with ruling class. Any support given to the anticlerical movement served automatically as a contribution to the struggle for liberation and, vice versa, allegiance to the hierarchy was tantamount to a betrayal of the national cause. If we open Prof. Novak's book with these things in mind, we shall find it easy to orient ourselves in the vast mass of material and evidence which he has collected both during pre-war period and during the years of, first, his incarceration in a concentration camp and, later, in confinement to his home in Belgrade. The invasion and disruption of Jugoslavia in the spring of 1941 has served the author as the dividing line of the period to be covered in the third part of this trilogy. The magnum crimen is not an individual or isolated action: the author uses the term to designate the activities of that part of the Croat hierarchy which cast their lot with the poglavnik of NDH, Ante Pavelic, and endorsed his policy, friendly to the Axis and hostile to the Serbian people, and in general to all those who even after the forceful dismemberment of the country remained faithful to the idea of a Jugoslavia. Two long chapters, covering over 500 pages, have been reserved for the description of condition prevailing in the NDH. The author bases his gloomy picture not only on written documents which, despite strict police measures found their way to the occupied capital, but also on personal narratives by some of his fellow prisoners in the Banjica konclogor. But the connection between the Magnum crimen and the prior volumes of the trilogy has been preserved by a broad outline of the part which one fraction of the Croat high clergy played both during the first World War and in Jugoslavia from 1918 to the spring of 1941. The subtitle is a little misleading, for there is in the book only a brief sketch of ideological struggles among the Croats before 1914, and a detailed treatment begins with the shots fired in Sarajevo at the Archduke Francis Ferdinand and his consort on June 28, 1914. The presentation of the period of thirty years is neither even nor symmetrical. The narrative does not run smoothly, as the author decided to quote freely and extensively from contemporary documents both to corroborate his charges and to disarm beforehand his opponents. Some passages have been written by a scholar in a dignified academic gown, in other parts of the book the author assumes the role of public prosecutor. 

Stockholm, Sweden OSCAR NEUMANN
Nisam siguran da publikovanje skoro celog kritickog pregleda Magnum Crimen-a gore ne predstavlja krsenje autorskih prava. Pokusao sam da obrisem ovaj pregled gore ali me ne dozvalja nekakav automatski filter. Molim nekoga ko to moze da ucini da ucini tj. obrise.--178.223.70.232 (разговор) 08:45, 18. април 2018. (CEST)Одговори

Нетранскрибована имена

Последњи коментар: пре 6 година2 коментара2 уредника у расправи

Било би лепо када би се имена аутора приказа транскрибовала.--Владимир Нимчевић (разговор) 15:53, 18. април 2018. (CEST)Одговори

@Владимир Нимчевић Pravilna transkripcija je skoro nemoguća ako se ne zna izgovor imena u izvornom jeziku. Drugo, mi u srpskom jeziku nemamo potpuno ili nepotpuno artikulisane glasove ili poluglasove koje imaju drugi jezici, (npr englesko th). Jedini izlaz je dati neku (možda pogrešnu) transkripciju zajedno sa originalom npr. Nojman (Neumann), Kornis-Poup (Cornis-Pope). Ta tvoja primjedba je u redu, ali zašto si uklonio poslednju interpretaciju Nojmanovog pregleda Magnum Crimena? Šta ti znači komentar "Ovo nije tema za svakoga." ?--BBabaru (разговор) 18:16, 31. мај 2018. (CEST)Одговори

Jugoslavizam biskupa Štrosmajera

Последњи коментар: пре 6 година1 коментар1 уредник у расправи

Viktor Novak pristrasno slavi Štrosmajera kao narodnog čovjeka i prijatelja južnih Slovena. Trebalo bi, bar u fusnoti, napomenuti da o istom Štrosmajeru postoje drukčija mišljenja, kao ovo Dučićevo, na primjer.--BBabaru (разговор) 13:21, 1. јун 2018. (CEST)Одговори

Издање из 1958. године на 1100 страница?

На Google књигама се налази и неко издање из 1958. године на 1100 страница, али нема информације о томе ко је издавач.

Скраћена издања Свјетлости су на 261, 197 и 210 страница (Јасеновац готово потпуно избачен и не помиње се ко је ту страдао, а нема ни слова о Јастребарском, Пагу и Јадовну, које се додуше није помињало ни у првој верзији). Сва остала издања у XX веку су на 1119 страница.

Тиражи:

  • 1948 (4.000)
  • 1960 I (600?), II (600?), III (600?)
  • 1986 (4.000)
  • 1989 (5.000)
  • 2011 I (1.500), II (1.500)
  • 2015 I (2.000), II (2.000)

Додао сам и боље линкове за издања из 1986. и 2011. године (тренутно се у чланку за први том овог издања грешком налази линк за други том) ако неко хоће да дода у чланак пошто је тренутно закључан.

Преузето из „https://sr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Разговор:Magnum_Crimen/Архива_1&oldid=26445722”
Врати ме на страницу „Magnum Crimen/Архива 1”.